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[Mainstream] share with me your cleaning approach.

Discussion in 'Altar Galleria' started by unix06, 1 July 2016.

  1. unix06
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    unix06 Registered Member

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    Hi there,

    Before I can share my altar photos, I'd like to ask you guys how do you clean the altar?

    Is it not polite to take all the statues off from the altar and perform a deep clean ?

    Cheer!
    Cowby
     
  2. horchai
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    horchai Registered Member

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    The gods will be happy that u r a dedicated devotee to do a good cleaning.

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  3. Khanti555
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    Khanti555 Registered Member

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    Hi TS,

    It is indeed a good deed to undertake the task of cleaning the altar.

    There are a few things to take note of course:
    1) If intending to wipe the altar with wet cloth, ensure that the cloth is solely dedicated to wiping of altar only. Buy a new cloth and from then on, this cloth is only used for altar cleaning. The same goes for any pail or container for rinsing of the cloth.
    2) The incense burner position is always fixed, usually located in the bottom middle of the altar that is aligned directly to your primary Bucha. As often as possible, clear the incense sticks and ensure ashes are not overflowing. How much ash should be in the incense burner will be up to you but not too full.
    3) This will be the most important point. As much as possible when cleaning the altar table, never ever touch the Buchas. This will mean that you do not lift or move the Buchas and clean underneath it. This will have to go back to the first day you rent the Buchas or setup the altar table. All positions determined by you or a master will be final and no moving of them until necessary. It is not necessary to move the Buchas just to clean. Moving of the Buchas around is only when you need to re-position them in correct hierarchical order or changing of altar table.

    For point number 3 above, there will be questions like:
    a) The Bucha is dirty, I need to clean.
    b) Why couldn't I touch it or move it?
    c) Everyone moving it so why not?

    For item (a): The Buchas will of course get dirty or dusty as time goes buy with incense smoke or offering of jasmine flowers, but it will be oki. With a good Bucha that is properly empowered (mainstream or barang), sincerely prayed to daily, the whole Buchas will be dirty except one place, which is the face. No matter the material of the Bucha, the face will be glowing and shiny and this is a telltale sign of a good Bucha. Hence it is not necessary to clean a Bucha.

    For item (b): Yes we can move or touch the Bucha, provided we have a good reason for it and ask for permission first before touching and moving. And yes, please wash hands before moving. Of course there will be exceptional reason such as the Bucha is caked with thick layer of dust or lizard droppings or other stuff on it, you can proceed to clean it with permission.
    Also, you will need to recite a Kata to move or touch it. Sorry but I can't share the Katha without permission.

    For item (c): Of course the decision lies in you. This information is provided for you to make a better decision. So will there be any harm in moving or touching the Bucha? Of course for mainstream Buchas is no. It is just disrespect. For barang Buchas, I'm not qualified to comment and have no knowledge about it.
     
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  4. TheAvengers
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    TheAvengers Registered Member

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    Siao Liao... I always move my buchas around...

    Tonight must go back repent


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  5. Alfie Yeo
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    Alfie Yeo Registered Member

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    hello bro first place are u taoist or buddhism? thai buddhism is simple not u mention all this rules. if taoist yes there is alot of rules like u mention can't any how shifted or touch the buchas. but thai simple not complicated as long u want to shift or clean just inform will do. face also can be clean not wht u mention power of bucha to see the face more shine more power, than no shine mean no power? of cos u everyday burn jossticks or burn kum mon yen the bucha face sure shinning la. even thai monks told me u can bring ur bucha any where no obligation. now is modern day dont make it so complicated la, i every year clean my altar also shifted my buchas and replaced the position or some time change position. remember buddha never said cant any how shifted buchas only human say bcos of ban tung.
     
    Last edited: 1 July 2016
  6. horchai
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    horchai Registered Member

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    Nonetheless bro khanti is still helpful to take his time to write a long post for us.

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  7. natas
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    natas Registered Member

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    I just wai, clean the buchas and put back.
     
  8. Sangmo
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    Sangmo Registered Member

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    Cleaning is already a good act; it shows care, patience, mindfulness and compassion.
    Sadhu
     
  9. Khanti555
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    Khanti555 Registered Member

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    Hi Alfie,

    Those are very good questions raised. First of all to answer your question, I have no knowledge on Taoism and am not qualified to comment on their practices.

    Burning of incense or Kam Mi Yan will cause discolouration to the Buchas. It will cause a yellow or brown tint and not necessarily causing the Bucha face to be shiny. You will need to observe the complete Bucha where in most cases, the body will be matt while the face is shiny, regardless the material of the Bucha. I shall share my experience of a porcelain Bucha that the face can glow later on.

    Now based on TS question, it is the cleaning of altar table and so to the best of my knowledge, altar table cleaning practices is applied. For the cleaning of Buchas its a whole different field of practice.

    Buchas can be cleaned annually and when urgently required. There is simply cleaning and moving around and the second type is serious cleaning, putting gold foil and moving the Buchas out the householder house. For the simple and easy cleaning and moving around, one will simply need to inform and make known to the Deva, Arahant or Buddha through praying. There is a katha for this.

    For the serious cleaning, putting gold foil, and moving the Buchas out of the house, you will need to recite a katha before the works begin and a different katha after the works is done.

    All these belongs to Buddhism, especially Theravada. Cos all the kathas are Pali. Sorry but I cannot share the katha without permission from my master.



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  10. bluewave
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    bluewave Registered Member

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    Like that also so secretive...

    I guess laymen dont know the secret katha, is fine la... Gods wont blame you for temporarily moving them while cleaning..

    cos most laymen wont have access to such secret katha..
     
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  11. Alfie Yeo
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    Alfie Yeo Registered Member

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    Bro can be share who is ur master n ur master from where? Thanks
     
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  12. Khanti555
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    Khanti555 Registered Member

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    My master is in SG but already semi retired and his master before him is LP Tim of Wat Phra Kao


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  13. unix06
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    unix06 Registered Member

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    Thanks all for the valuable information. I will clean up my altar this Sunday. Cheers!
     
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  14. 18insanity
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    18insanity Registered Member

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    In Thai Buddhism there's a kata for almost everything. From wearing your amulets to changing your offerings even when u eat or leave your home.
    So is katas important?
    Yes. To those who are practising spiritual or self cultivation pertaining to Buddhism.
    Is it a must? Somewhat subjective depending what's involved.
    There's the correct way n there's the layman's way.
    If one profess to be spiritual pactictioner in Buddhism says dun makes things complicated.., try telling that to a monk performing daily cleaning of their altar n see whether they shift n changes any position of the buchas as they like.
    Or, no need chant anything la just ask for permission can already.
    Then why the need to seek for a master?
    无师自通 ?
    Everything D.I.Y loh, no need pang tang?

    Having said all these.. one is correct to say 'keep it simple' to a layman.
    But simplicity doesn't means complacency...
    Always seek advice from a reliable master of your choice..
    If your master say no need then no need loh.. responsibilities lies on him.
    No ask how......?

    Ultimately its between u and the deities or the entities one is praying to..

    Not against anyone here ah..
    Just 借题发挥 nia....



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  15. Khanti555
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    Khanti555 Registered Member

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    Yes, it is best to rely on one's master and ask and take instructions directly on how to perform certain things. Sometimes the master may not give katha or clear instructions which is still Oki. If one decide to move the Buchas around the altar table and with the correct motivation, such as to clean because it's dirty, it is Oki. Once in a Long while is Oki such as annual cleaning.

    The altar is a place of residence for them, mainstream or barang. Cleaning the altar is one science, arranging the altar is one science and making an altar is another science. What is placed on the altar not only allow us to venerate but also serve as a good observation post if the protectors are here, not here, happy or offended and also An provide us a glimpse into our current life condition.

    Now to share the glowing face Bucha.

    There was this family who had this Guanyin Bucha made of porcelain. They performed annual cleaning as usual. No katha was used. So are family was safe and sound for 35 years with this Bucha.

    The porcelain Bucha of Guanyin was white in Color and slight painting here and there to outline the hair, facial features, robes and so on. Now whenever the family members prayed with incense to the Bucha, the face would glow slight pink and the face seems to smile more.

    Now this is a very good sign if the Bucha is properly empowered by a master. The twist of this is that what reside in the Bucha is not Guanyin or a protector. It was a spirit, a strong one but a benevolent one. How we know? That's where the importance of katha and many torturing hours of training comes to play a part. Katha is just words which one can find in Sutras or when an AJ or LP gives. You need to keep practicing to give the katha power. That's why when you have an amulet, you ask for the katha and with the katha you chant as much as you can.

    A properly empowered Bucha with protectors residing in it will show the same characteristics.




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  16. Alfie Yeo
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    Alfie Yeo Registered Member

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    bro means u telling me if we pray thai gods need to chant katha even master give? if no chance mean no power or no respect is it? than i can say that is consider enforce, cos not every devotees like to chant and some prefer to pray only. to chant katha or not that depend on individual interest and logically buddha ask to follow his 5 preset as buddha in heart that more important. If can chant cos more good for yourself if not just pray also same. to chat katha shift bucha while cleaning or come back or go out chant all this is not must and is no link to whether u seek master for advise. for me seek master advise for buddhist thought and certain katha that i need cos i wont follow blindly. If everything seek master i can sure u ask every master the answer all give u are different n the best is follow the real buddha thaught that is the true. will master always give you the right answer??? remember seek master is an advise n final conclusion is ur decision so pls dont misled devotees.
     
  17. 18insanity
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    18insanity Registered Member

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    Bro. U hv not been reading. I say there's the correct way n there's the layman's way in thai buddhism.
    Simplicity doesn't mean complacency.
    All LP n AC ar there to offer advice.
    Responsibilities ( gd or bad karma ) lies on them when they give u advice be it right or wrong.
    If seeking advice frm a reputable master is useless cos u assume they will give different answers then u no need them. And their existence is meaningless.
    Then may i ask who's your master n where u learn thai buddhism from?
    The internet?

    If ask also lazy then on who the responsibility lies?
    Seeking advice means enforcement?
    Then what are we learning here my friend?
    I dun need to explain much as i believe to those who have much knowledge more will be given.
    To those who seek ,those they will find.
    But to those who hv none n yet do not seek........
    Anyway.. to each its own.
    Telling ppl no need find a reputable master to ask abt things unsure , and basic katas no need learn cos no power..
    Saying i am misleading others for advising so. Then so be it.
    Just remember karma is a bitch...
    She never forgets....




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  18. Alfie Yeo
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    Alfie Yeo Registered Member

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    bro can u definite 'There's the correct way n there's the layman's way' and different this two? is it only LP n AC qualify to advise? layman consider not qualify to advise? if a layman accuminate experiences will a layman qualify to guide? 'To those who are practising spiritual or self cultivation pertaining to Buddhism' they need to chant more inoder they can be enlightenment or supernatural power ? Basic katha so important without chanting them no power on amulets or buchas? can we give master or monk to chant? what u mean karma is a bitch? thanks for ur advise maybe ur master is to that point of enlightenment , maybe i learn from rojak master not in deep of understanding.
     
  19. Khanti555
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    Khanti555 Registered Member

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    Hi TS,

    How is the cleaning going? Hope to see your altar pictures soon.

    Hi Alfie and 18insanity,

    Keep cool and calm. Questions raised are very good and interesting. Will explain in good time and hope my limited knowledge will help.
     
  20. 18insanity
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    18insanity Registered Member

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    Bro i think u are confused between Buddhism n Thai buddhism.
    In thai buddhism one's altar may worship not only buddha but many other Devas n deities, KMT n other spirit based entities.
    If its your own opinion n your own level of understanding pls state so,
    And not telling it as if its a hard fact.

    If not pls state which master u learn your stuff from n your credentials in correcting n accusing someone in a case of mislead?
    Which is appropriate? Seeking advice from a respected master or listening to an opinion thats u have shown nothing to back up?
    Reputable LP n AC comes from a long line of lineage based on traditions n teachings in thai buddhism. And these teachings n traditions are there for a reason. Do not discredit them.

    As you hv said yourself that u seek katas for what u need, then tell ppl dun need to?
    When ppl in AF seek advices direct them to someone they can trust cos the want to learn.
    If they seek for an opinion ,tell them what knowledge u hv acquired over the years so they can verify.
    And not saying it as if its a hard fact.

    My level of understanding is low so i direct them to someone qualified.
    And not a blind leading a blind.

    Noone say u can't advice..
    just state its as an advice.

    So whats the definition of layman?

    If u profess to be a layman pls do not rise yourself to a Ahjarn level.

    Everyone reading your opening statement already know your level of understanding.



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